Category: philosophy/religion topics
I know there are Christians,* Mormons, Muslims, pagans, atheists and agnostics on the Zone, but do any of you follow a different belief system?
*I'm defining Christian as the Evangelical alliance would define Christian, not because that is how I define Christianity (it isn't), but so I can find out if anybody follows a denomination of Christianity the Evangelical Alliance wouldn't recognise as Christian. For example, they wouldn't consider Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses to be Christian.
I am a follower of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. AKA, Mormonm. I'll spare everyone my feelings on how we're "not" Christian *eye roll*.
I am not a denominational christian...I am a christian! Nondenominational and that's how I like it!
What is a non-denominal Christian exactly? This isn't sarcastic, I'm actually curious. Usually belief systems differ slightly depending on which of the many, many denominations you belong to. For one who doesn't associate with a particular denomination, what does that mean for you?
Isn't it kind of an oxymoron? I mean, to be a non-denominational christian, you would have to disagree with something about every one of the numerous denominations. Thus, you are creating your own group of people who believe in the same thing you do, IE a denomination. So, you would have the denomination of nondenominational christians. Hense, an oxymoron.
That's certainly one way of looking at it. I think in this case, non-denominal simply means nobody cares which way you believe, only that you do believe. I may be wrong.
From what I understand, someone who refers to themself as a nondenominational Christian means their belief system subscribes to the basic tenants of Christianity as a whole, without subscribing to one or another flavor.
Like calling oneself a Unix System Administrator, rather than a Redhat System Administrator. All are Linux be it Ubuntu, Redhat, Debian, even Android, with some pretty profound differences. Even differences at the kernel level. But nobody is saying it's not linux.
So perhaps by not binding to one flavor or another, they wish to not appear being locked into one or the other. This is how I actually tend to operate. And just like Linux, there are components of various flavors you find really useful and other components from those same flavors that drive you absolutely nuts.
There's at least a practical, if unspiritual, explanation.
i'm pagan, but sadly, my entire family is catholic. so hiding what i am sucks.
oh did i mention they're not fond of me being a lesbian either? lol. sighs
Just be yourself. I know it will be difficult, especially if *everyone* in your family disagrees, but you'll feel better for it in the end. don't give up. *smiles*
I have to fully agree with Ocean Dream on this one.
it really gets on my nerves when people believe something simply because they are told to, but if you really do believe in something, believe it with everything you have, and don't let anybody stop you.
Well, I am a Christian. My family is Catholic, which yes, is a subcategory of Christianity, except that they really stand out for having different beliefs than most Christian denominations. I turned away from the philosophy that good works are what get you to heaven, that one must confess their sins to another human being in order to be absolved by him, that infant baptism is absolutely necessary and the way to go, that one must pray to God for the dead so that He might change His mind about their souls and consider bringing them up to heaven if they didn't happen to have made it there themselves, that Mary performs miracles so we should pray to her, etc. So when I told them that good works alone wouldn't get them to heaven and all they had to do was accept Christ, they looked at me like I had turned completely wild and betrayed everyone and everything they had ever tought me and gone against my roots and traditions. So my point is, if you truely believe strongly in something there's no point in trying to hide it. Just be yourself.
I actually had an opposite childhood - more devout than my mother (with whom I lived). That's no fun either.
That's very interesting Musig Girl. I knew about all that other stuff, but I didn't know about the good works portion of Catholisism. I guess the term "good" is morally ambiguous for some people.:)
Well, their idea is that you have to work for your salvation.. in other words try to sin as little as possible and go and let a priest no when you do so that he can rid you of it, take communion regularly, pray a thousand Hale Marys and Lord's prayers, get baptized.. and by that they mean just a sprinkle of water on your head, be good to others etc. Then hope that God looks upon your works and decide that they were good enough. Common sense will tell you it's impossible, because none of us our perfect and we're bound to slip up.
It's basically like balancing out the scales and hoping your good outweighs your bad. Far too similar to karma, I say, as if you are living under the law, breaking one part of it makes you culpable.
It's interesting though, the idea of works. For me it's always been about balance. Just an idea of what I mean ... it might be a lengthy read while I try and create context, but if you're interested, this is what my church believes.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is also called the "restored Gospel". We believe that shortly after Jesus came, much of the truths of the gospel were lost, either due to translation, misunderstanding and/or suppression. We call this period "The Great Apostacy" and it was during it that most of the Church's terrible history which people love bringing up happened. We believe the truth of Jesus's teachings has been reestablished, as it was when Jesus left the church in the hands of his 12 apostles. We follow the Book of Mormon, a book of scripture which documents God's dealings with a group whom he caused to flee Jarusalem before its destruction. We follow the words of the ancient prophets of the Old Testament such as Daniel, Isiah and the rest, as they contain many testaments of Christ's coming both the first, and second times. We follow the New Testament which we believe to hold Jesus's teachings during his mortal ministry, and which are mirrored in the Book of Mormon. We believe the Bible to be a book of history, and the inspired words of God, in so far as the book is translated correctly. The problem with translation is even a word or sentense mistranslated can completely change the meaning behind it. The Book of Mormon is not meant to overshadow the Bible, but to be a companion to it. The teachings of one are mirrored in the other. We follow the Pearl of Great Price, which we believe to be a companion to the first books of the old testament and which add clarity to many passages, particularly those dealing with the creation. And we follow the Doctrine and Covenants, a book of modern-day revelations given to modern-day prophets. Yes, we do believe in a modern-day prophet and continuing revelation as existed in times of old. Our current prophet is named Thomas S. Monson, and to be honest, he and the other church leaders are the only group I've ever come across which I can honestly say I trust completely. We do NOT! follow the false prophet of the fundimentalist Mormons who has gotten so much media attention, and I want to make that very clear.
For us of the LDS , Jesus Christ matters. The father matters. The Holy Ghost matters. They are three distinct beings, but one in purpose. We hold Mary in high regard as the earthly mother of Jesus, but we do not deify her or pray to her. We pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was sent by God, chosen from the very beginning to be a savior for mankind. He went willingly, knowing what would happen to him. He came, not to damn the world, but through him the world might be saved. Adam and Eve transgressed in the garden of Eden at the urging of Lucifer - Satan, an angel who saught to usurp the Father and rebelled against the free will the Father and Son proposed for mankind. , and that too was part of the great plan. Adam fell that men might be, men are that they might have joy. Without the transgression, human kind could not have been born, because Adam and eve would have remained in the garden forever, never dying, never knowing good from evil, sadness from joy, pleasure from pain. Their transgression cut mankind off from God, and that's why we need Jesus, to take upon himself the sins of the world, atone for us, bridge the gap between mortality and immortality, and be our mediator and loving judge. That said, we are not responsible for the sins of our fathers. We are innocent until we reach the age of accountability, an age where we have a concept of right and wrong. This is set for all to be eight years old. Thus, infant baptism is not necessary. Baptism by immersion and the recieving of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands however is. Jesus himself was baptised by John the Baptist, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove (or maybe like a Dove).
Without being baptised and accepting Jesus Christ, we are unable to return to the Father in the end. That neither means we are incapable of being good people, nor does it mean we are automatically damned when we die. After all, what about those people who have never heard of Jesus Christ. Why should they go to hell. God loves his children and does not want to lose any of us. This is where the concept of Heaven and Hell come in. Heaven is a place of paradise where we rest from all our woes, and where we help to teach those who are "damned" for lack of a better word. These are people in "hell", which is a prison of sorts where they come to a complete knowledge of who and what they are. These are people are who either didn't accept the gospel in Mortality, or never had a chance to. I think it also includes unrepentent people who did accept it, but who rejected or ignored its teachings. I don't know much about this damnation, only that those who do not accept in mortality will have a harder time of it in the hereafter. For baptism, we have baptisms for the dead, where we are baptised by proxy for someone else. The concept is set forth in the Old Testament, but most contemporary Christians frown upon the idea. To most, it's a very clear black and white. For us it is too, but with a little more murcy.
About the idea of works. We are commanded by Jesus Christ to be perfect, even as he and his father are perfect. This is written both in the Book of Mormon and the New Testament But none of us is perfect. We can't be. Nonetheless we must strive to keep God's commandments - all of them. We will break some, and we will sin. When we sin we must repent, which means foresake the sin. Never do it again, as Jesus told the woman caught in adultery in the New Testament. "Go thy way and sin no more." God knows our hearts; he knows if we truly feel remorse for the things we do. If we lie, we must confess the lie to the wronged individual and make amends. Sometimes the sin is greavous, and that's when we need to confess to our bishop. Such sins are adultery, murder, breaking the law of Chastity (no sexual relations outside of marriage), things like alcahol abuse, domestic abuse ... etc.
In the end we can sincerely repent. But our sincerity is key. Jesus's atonement will make up the difference. His gift is freely given to all. But we must not only accept him, but strive to follow him. After all, how can we call ourselves Christians if we accept the Savior, but then actively seek to break the commandments he's set forth? There are so many closet Christians out there. People who, having said they accept Jesus and have a personal relationship with him only ever think about him on sundays, that read their bibles and yet do not seek to understand them, that lie, cheat, steal, screw around and murder and think "Oh, it's okay. I love Jesus and he loves me. It doesn't matter what I do, Jesus will save me. Or my favorite "God told me to do it, or "the devil made me do it."
In the end, we can not be saved by our works alone. There is no balancing of the scales of justice. There is repenting for our sins, turning away, and if we've hurt someone, there's making amends. God knows our hearts, and he sees our true willingness. Our intentions, and our striving to be as Jesus is, coupled with his redemption are what will save us.
You know what I find ironic about this? Senior asked: what *other* belief systems do zoners follow? In fact, he even stated that he knew about the varying sects of Christianity, agnostics and atheists. Judging from that post, though I could be wrong, and Senior, please correct me if I am, I think he was actually interested to hear from other, less talked about religions. so far, with the exception of one post, it seems we've only heard from the groups he mentioned being aware of, at least in a general sense. don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Christians and atheists can't post here, but do we have any others here? Muslims? Hindus? anyone else we don't usually here from?
to those other religions, though I can't promise you won't encounter opposition, you are at least somewhat protected by the fact this is "Safe Haven". Nobody can cuss you out here. if you're out there, don't be shy. I'm honestly interested to hear from you, too.
Agreed. These topics seem to all attract the same few people and then turn into spirited debates (WHich I know I contribute to). Wonder if that scares people off or if people are just not interested.